[00:00:00] Chris Grainger: Welcome to Eco Ssy. Today we're gonna be talking about how to debrief to win with Robert Kujo Ner. So Kujo, how you doing today, my friend? I'm 

[00:00:13] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: magnificent today. Great to be here in your midst. You're firing me up. 

[00:00:17] Chris Grainger: Oh man. I'm so excited to have you here today. Uh, let's just jump right in because I'll tell you what debrief to win and look, we're gonna have that in the show notes for our listeners.

I got my copy right here. So let's jump in to what is your definition of a debrief? 

[00:00:30] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah, the debrief, uh, very simply put, it's the constructive evaluation of the quality of our decisions and associated actions measured against the objectives we set out to achieve. Got sounds complex, sounds somewhat onerous, sounds for foreboding or whatever else.

It's actually a really, really beautiful thing. It's a fantastic instrument to help a team to be its best. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:00:55] Chris Grainger: And it's something we just don't think of enough, you know, particularly in business and a lot of times we hear the word feedback come back, right? I mean, we give some feedback, I wanna hear some feedback.

So what's, what's missing when we think about just feedback, you know, that's, that's pretty narrow thinking, right? 

[00:01:10] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not just what's missing, it's what damage are we doing when we provide feedback? And we've got this mentality right now in business where we, we supposedly thrive on feedback, which is delivered as constructive criticism.

Hey, I've, I've identified a fault or a gap deficiency and issue. I'm gonna provide you with some, some, um, some counsel about that to make you better. Right? That's the, that's the whole thing. It's been drummed into us. We've experienced it, you know, through the decades now. And what we're finding, the more that we dig into how do human beings optimize performance, is that the constant drumming of, you're doing this wrong and this wrong and this wrong actually works against us.

And so feedback can actually be poisonous feedback without clarity of what is the standard against which we're measuring feedback without empathy for why it is that people did the things that they did in the context of doing it. Feedback delivered absent, uh, clarity of what the grading scale is that we're measuring against and feedback delivered one way.

Uh, I'm actually, the, the more that I spend time doing what I do, the less interested I am in that particular approach. In fact, the more I say it's, it's, it's poison. Ah, 

[00:02:24] Chris Grainger: really? Okay. Yeah. No kidding. Just be, just because of that, that tip, that mindset and that approach. 

[00:02:32] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah. I mean, think about it. How many, how many people respond?

Well to Chris, you screwed up again today. Chris, you screwed up again. Chris, you screwed up again. Day. Chris, I love you, but you screwed up again today. Hey, Chris, you, you, you screwed up again. I. Most of us can tolerate a certain amount of that at some point. If that's all that we ever get, we can probably start to detune it, in which case it's not very effective.

But it's not the, it's not the place that, that we go to, to really be our best. There are better ways to help people to learn. There are coaching methodologies that are designed to help somebody to grow. And feedback is currently delivered in business, I think works against us right 

[00:03:09] Chris Grainger: now. I I'm so glad you that you said that because you also mentioned in your book and got, and again, listeners go to the show notes who are having links to, to Ku Joe's book, his materials, all his resources.

But you talk about culture, I mean, a lot of times you gotta have that right culture to have an effective debrief to really move in, in the right direction. And, you know, how, how cri critical is that and what do you look for you, cause you work with a lot of organizations when you walk in, what can, what do you, what, what are you signs do you see, to know, you know what, this is a pretty cool culture here versus I got some work to do.

[00:03:40] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, great question. When we look at what, what makes a team, and I use as a reference, uh, a book called The Wisdom of Teams written by two researchers spent about 20 years studying teams. John Cobham Duck Smith. They say that a team is a small group of people with complimentary skills that shares commitment to a common purpose.

Mm-hmm. to performance goals, to an approach they've crafted for which they hold themselves mutually accountable. They say you need to have all six of those components to be one. What they miss in that definition is the behavioral components of how it is that we interact with one another and those behavioral components of how it's that we interact arguably more important than any of the other components of a team.

So, so, you know, we can, we can have all of the above commitment to purpose performance goals, give credit for skills, but.

We're able to criticize without empathy. We're able to punish brutally, you know, all in the interests of achieving our performance goals. We're not a team. In fact, we're, we're a, we're a toxic environment where people do not thrive. So what do I look for is how do people interact with one another? And what behaviors are important to us?

What are the core values that we don't just have written on a wall, but actually are intentional about living? And, and how do we hold ourselves accountable for doing that? For me, what's much more important, what isn't in the book actually, cause when I wrote the book, I didn't have as many swings of the bat businesses as I do now, next edition of the book is gonna highlight the necessity of debrief to win core values, which start with vulnerability.

They also include empathy. So what I'm looking for is, are you Chris, as the CEO of your company, able to and consistently demonstrate. Vulnerability able to, and then constituently, demonstrate active vulnerability, admitting your mistakes and weaknesses in front of your subordinates and your peers. Right.

That's a big deal. If you can't do that, then we, we can't really debrief to win because the debrief, the process of holding oneself accountable for the outcomes that the, that the team achieves, taking absolute ownership for the outcomes that the team achieves. That can only take place if we as leaders can be vulnerable.

Right. The other piece is, you know, if, if, if we're, if we're able to be vulnerable ourselves, but then also attack without, without having empathy, understanding the context within which decisions are, That doesn't work either. So I think, I think there's a, there's a cultural foundation centered on the active practice of debrief to win core values.

And, and there's six of them by the way. It's vulnerability, collaboration, empathy, self-awareness, self-awareness as a component of emotional intelligence, uh, humility and ownership. Mm-hmm. . And so if, if we, if we can't, if we can't practice those, then all the process in the world isn't really gonna matter.

[00:06:38] Chris Grainger: Right? Right. And so, I mean, it's so interesting that you bring up vulnerability and empathy because that's just not something that you think of when you think of leadership. You know, you just, that, that's two buzzwords that just aren't out there. Not many business books talking about you need to be a more vulnerable leader.

Right. You know, but there's also another word you've mentioned, I think four or five times already accountability. And so lemme just ask you straight up, is accountability a dirty word? I mean, do people consider that a dirty word in business, man, People. 

[00:07:08] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: People, okay. So it depends on who you ask. Okay? The CEO and the C-Suite, they're gonna say, we demand accountability.

Oh yeah, we want it, we gotta have it. Right? Whether or not that applies to them is a separate question, right? But they definitely demand accountability from, from down below. From down below perspective. It's a, oh, no. Oh no. They're, they're gonna hold us accountable. So it's a threat. It's a threat of punishment.

So if something goes poorly around here, I'm gonna be held accountable, and this isn't a good thing, right? And so therefore, there's so much, there's so much baggage, negative emotion, um, apprehension tied to that word that yeah, it is, it is a bad word in business. The problem is, it, it, it, it shouldn't be.

Not only shouldn't it be it, ha it has to be the opposite of that, right? The reason why the C-Suite demands accountability is, is that they're demanding performance. And so they see holding somebody accountable as a means of generating performance, and that's a fear-based approach. Okay, so just think about this, this way, like, like how do we inspire and motivate our teammates to be their best?

Fear can do it for a short period of time. If you study fear, you'll find that fear can get you performance, but you're gonna have that performance and it's gonna drop off pretty precipitously and very, very quickly. So then you ask yourself, well then if fear isn't the way, and if using accountability in a fear-based approach to drive performance isn't gonna get us there, then, then how else can we harness this thing?

My answer is, we hold ourselves collectively accountable, uh, for the good and the bad. And just the, the piece of this where we're talking about accountability for the good, that's a part that I don't know that we're harnessing so well in business. I mean, there's businesses that do a brilliant job of it, but I don't know that, that most businesses do.

I get a lot of feedback from business leaders who say, we don't have time to hold ourselves accountable for the wins. You know, it's only we, we've only got time to dig into the losses, and therein lies the root of the problem. So I say, let's hold Chris accountable for the good that he's done, which means let's go ahead and celebrate the fact that based upon the facts, we can substantiate Chris's the origin story to why it was that we won the contract, finished the project under time, made next million, you know, over whatever.

Let's, let's make sure, make big deal about that, right? Because, because we're holding you accountable for the good that you've achieved. And that's, that's a, that's a great part of this. Then the other piece is when you're talking about, you know, dissecting a failure, um, holding ourselves accountable for a loss, the question is, do we blame, punish, or do we enter into a, into a different mindset?

Do we coach for resilience to help the team to rebound from this, to help us to harness this loss as one of the best opportunities we've ever had? Right? And if we can go with option B where the accountability isn't, Holding ourselves accountable in a punishment way, but really using accountability as a means to coach the team to have a better tomorrow, then we're onto something.

Yeah, right. 

[00:10:08] Chris Grainger: You know, I'm thinking back through my days at Eco. I've managed a lot of people over the years and, and the mo we used to have a motor repair business and quick story here, we had, we, we built our own in-house, uh, program to manage the, the process. Okay. So all the repairs that goes through, very process driven.

We're a bunch of engineers, so there you go. But we had a report and we ran a report and it was basically, it would work off of this, your standard hours, you had to complete the task, this is how long it took you to complete the task. And you know, you either came in above or below and then we would look at that for all the jobs and I would run it.

And a report was actually color coded. So when we really suck, I mean, really sucked on a job. It would bleed red and this, it would pop up on his report. But inversely, we ran the report, but when we crushed it and we made that I think blue or something like that, we color coded that. So when they come out and we, we expected a, let's say a margin of 20% and they rocked it and got somehow 50, you know, they, they really did good on their, on their time that hit the report.

And we would sit down as a management team and naturally everybody would shut down when we, when we started looking at the bad stuff. But when we actually looked at the good ones, man, we found out, we learned so much about our team, about how we quoted, about what worked well, how we could replicate that on future jobs.

And to the point where I almost completely just scrapped the bad ones. Cause I just said, all right guys, y'all know why you sucked on those jobs, right? Everybody was like, yep, all right, now how can we do the blue more? Right? So, I mean it's just, I think that type of mentality for was huge for us, but it wasn't natural.

We had to get there to start thinking, to look at the wins. 

[00:11:41] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: And I'll tell you what, first of all, I love your approach. Clearly, clearly that approach was working for you. You can see why people enjoy digging into their successes, highlighting folks for the good that they're doing happens to be one of those things that causes people to wanna come back and keep on, keep on doing more.

Good. So, so that absolutely makes sense. But if you think about the losses as well mm-hmm. , and to say, Hey, you guys know, you know why it was, and we can move on with great technique, by the way. But if you were to take and, and adopt a slightly different version of that, which is the one that says the smile as we dissect our, our failures over here, let's, let's actually come into this thing just purely from an intellectual standpoint with smiles on her face and going, what do you think?

What, so what, what, what do we, what do we, what do we gather from this whole thing? Just from an intellectually curious standpoint. Mm-hmm. , you know, and if you can do that, cuz usually we're like, oh no. If we can smile as we're dissecting intellectually curious to learn, to help us to, to ensure that we never lose this way again.

Right. I think it can also serve as wealth. The point of the matter is we've been conditioned to criticize over time. It has been drummed into us to find fault. Mm-hmm. , you give somebody the opportunity to provide feedback on something, I guarantee you they're going to be critical. Right. You know? And, and then you ask people, how, how did that feel?

And they're like, well, you know, you're probably right. I probably, I probably did do this wrong or probably did do this wrong, but like you're, you're basically, you're basically attacking their soul, right? And deep inside place that none of us wants to admit exists. We're going, ah, yeah. And um, and I dunno that it's the best way.

Leadership is situational. There are times be hard. There are times, there are times when the best way to address something is to say, you'll never ever right. Do that again. Have I made myself clear, Chris? Like, dude, I got, I got brother. Like, okay, cool, and then we're done and we're right back to whatever.

But, but by and large is the, the, the mindset of constant criticism. Yeah, it doesn't serve us. No, not essentially. Not at a time when there are opportunities for people to go elsewhere and they're actively doing so. Right. That's 

[00:13:53] Chris Grainger: right. Yeah. I mean, cuz employee retention is so big right? These days. I mean, just once, when you get a good winning team, the last thing you don't know is break it up because of your, your methodology of, of feedback is just, is this crippling it?

So, uh, I love it. So let's, let's dig into your methodology, how you do this with d uh, with your de debrief focused approach. You kind of, you touched on that earlier, but paint that picture for the listeners a little bit better on, on how, what you teach and, and, and how you find value in, in your process here.

[00:14:20] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Absolutely. Well, you know, so, so, you know, backing things up a little bit, um, as a guy that grew up, uh, as a young fighter pilot trying to understand how to do a really complex mis mis mission set, uh, in a dangerous world, um, I learned through the active practice of being coached every single mission. How to learn from my mistakes in a positive way.

So I lived what we're talking about. That's the first thing to point out. I lived what we talked about, and in the process of living what I talked about, we were very intentional in a, in a fighter squad. And we're very intentional about making sure that we're clear on what we're trying to accomplish. So we had absolute clarity of, Hey, what is the mission today?

What are the objectives? What are we, what, what are the standards against which we're gonna hold ourselves? And then, you know, what's the plan to achieve it? So we, we, we set ourselves up to achieve success. Like there was no confusion in anybody's mind. There wasn't a, Hey, what does the boss want today?

Kinda a deal. And, you know, is it possible for us to get, it was absolute clarity. This is the mission. Here's how we're gonna grade ourselves and here's the plan that we've achieved or set up to achieve success. And then we went out there and, and tried our best to do it. And if I can pause for just one second, uh, I would tell you that what I've noticed in, in business is a lot of times we lack clarity.

Yeah. And so you got a team that's, you knows working out there and they're like, and I don't even, I don't even know what, what the boss really wants from me here. I just know we've got a, deadline's gotta be done by this after, so I'm gonna, I'm shoot from the here and hope that it's close enough. And you know, and that doesn't inspire people, right?

Nope. So we had clarity, we intent had ways to plan, and we had ways to communicate the plan so that everybody stepping out the door to go fly a mission knew exactly what we were trying to achieve. And had confidence by the way that that success was achievable. And then you'd go out there and fly. And here's the thing that was interesting about the fighter pilot business.

You had brilliant digs where you were just on fire, like, and you had global situational awareness. You knew what was going on around you, you were processing and making intelligent decisions. You were on. And there were days where you, you were just falling back to, let me just aviate, navigate and communicate.

Lemme just do the fundamentals to not crash or hit a mountain or do something else horrible. And you couldn't necessarily choose what day you were gonna have, uh, stepping out the door. Some days were great some days, one, and that's an interesting dynamic. There's some days when you couldn't do anything wrong.

There were some days when you couldn't do anything right. And then you'd come back in and, and you'd learn from it. But the funny thing is, is that all of us knew that that was the case. We understood and empathized the fact that some days you were on and some days you weren't. And in the, in, in the debrief that we would conduct after every mission, our accountability practice that follows every mission, not just some of the missions, not just the missions that we have the time to debrief.

Every single one of the missions that we ever flew, we came in there not to attack, punished, crucified, blame. Rather to learn. So the intent was to learn and the intent was to learn so that the next time we did this, the next time we flew a mission would be better than this one. And so if you could visualize a circle, a circle, that starts with planning, with a communication of the plan, with an execution phase where we're out there doing what it is that we said that we were going to do, and then a debrief or accountability phase where where we're really learning, we're learning in a way that's, we're coaching up our teammates so that the next time is gonna be better.

If we won a day, we're gonna win bigger tomorrow. If we lost a day, we're gonna bounce back and win tomorrow. That was the approach that we use day in and day out, to be as tight as we could be, to be ready to answer the nation's call, to go forth and to defend our, our country as directed. And I found it to be something that I took somewhat for granted when I was on active duty, but looking back on a brilliant approach to building teams that don't just win, but build the bonds of trust.

So I think back to who it is on the planet, who I trust implicitly. It is everybody that I flew with in the United States Air Force because what I found was in the debrief, everybody was so, so eager to learn from their mistakes today. And we never flew, ever in my, in my career, a perfect mission, eager to learn from the mistakes, to become that much more excellent next time.

And that's a pretty cool thing. It demands that we're vulnerable, that we're able to admit our weaknesses and mistakes in front of each other. How do you build the bonds of trust? By being truthful and honest. Demonstrating integrity, vulnerability is a demonstration of integrity in that context. Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty important thing, the ability to self-regulate.

I mean, you're, you're angry, you're a type A player, you wanna win. You wanna come in and just be like, oh. But to be able to turn that thing around and go, alright. What does the team need from me, right? Do they need my anger? Do they need me to just lose my mind? Probably not to be able to turn anger into a alright team.

Maybe we're a little bit disappointed about today. You know what? This could have been the biggest gift we've ever had. The opportunity to learn from a spectacular disaster so that we never have that experience again. That's something that builds the bonds of trust. Having a, having a team lead who can sit there and say, Chris, lemme ask you how many times, how many times have you done this particular repair?

How many times have you installed this particular piece of software? How many times have you typed in this code or engineered this thing? Whatever it is that we do around? And your answer is, well, this is my second time ever. Bosh like, Hey man, that's important to know. This is the second time we've ever done it.

Who here thinks that Chris needs to be perfect at what it is that he's doing the second time that he does? Anybody? Anybody feel that way? Raise your hand. No, nobody raises their hand. Okay, cool. Chris, lemme tell you what. Not only is this the second time that you've done this, and, and while I can see that you're a little bit disappointed that maybe it wasn't as strong as it could be, you did this right, you did this right, you did this right, you did this right.

You did this right. You did five outta the six sixteens right here, brother. And on the second time ever doing this. That's impressive. In fact, guys, what do you think? I'm remember when I did this the second time, I've got like one thing, right? Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Look at how good Chris is doing Now, when Chris gets that kind of feedback, he's done five outta six things, right?

The second time that he's ever done this, demonstrated empathy from his, from his leader. He can't help but be inspired. He's like, dude, I'm, I'm, I'm on track around here. The the team see it. I'm actually doing okay. Alright, good. I'm gonna get it all right tomorrow. Right. You know, that's a, that's a powerful approach to learning.

[00:21:03] Chris Grainger: I mean, but you're tell, you're digging right there into something that many people never think about. Like, you, you cared about my perspective and how I see the world versus, you know, your perspective. Cuz I, they're not the same, you know, you've been doing this a lot longer than me in this example. Right.

So I mean, is that, is that a misstep that you see happen a lot in business as we don't take that time to understand the 

[00:21:23] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: perspective? Oh, absolutely. We assume, I think because it's drummed into us as well, that as leaders we have exclusive rights to the facts. And so we'll come into a situation, we'll say, oh yeah, here's a problem, fix it, here's a problem, fix it, here's a problem, fix it.

And what the team is doing, because they're subordinate to the leader, they're like, you, yes sir. Got it. We'll, we'll fix it. But on the side, or you know, at the water cooler, they're like, this dude has no clue what's going on around here. He has no clue. We don't have resources. It was billion degrees, we almost lost somebody.

Like, we're lucky to be a lot. He thinks he knows everything. So we have the finger pointing coming from the team. We got the leader who's like, I've just solved their problem. And these two things do not create what it is that either side needs. Team co cohesion is centered. Iran leaders potentially recognizing they have no clue actually what the real facts are.

And if we go into a situation saying, I think I know everything, which means I probably don't know anything, then we're onto something. And so now what it forces us to do is to gather some perspectives. Hey Pete, what actually took place? Susan, what, what did you see? Go down Michelle. And now as we start to gather individual perspectives, we as leaders start to open our, our minds to the reality of what took place here.

And then we suddenly go, wait a second, I totally missed the mark. I had no clue that this is how bad it was for them. Actually, the, the real reason that they're not succeeding is I haven't equipped them to win. And that's on me. Right. Which then of course ran some vulnerability, uh, to make that acknowledgement.

But I promise you, a leader that can gather the truth from, from his or her team and realize where it is, that as a leader, they're letting the team down and can say to the team, here's what I've been failing you at, and here's what I'm going to correct because I own this outcome. That's a leader that suddenly builds trust with the team.

Right? Right. It takes some effort. Like it's hard, it's hard for us to come outta the defensive crouch as a leader to say, Hey, everybody demands that I know everything. I've gotta be the heroic leader who, you know, solves all problem to come out of that, into the, Hey, this one was on me. I'll own the fact that I screwed this thing up.

That's, it's a perception thing. We, we think that that's, that's a risk, right? It's actually the most fitting moment that we can experience as leaders, and as soon as we've embraced that, we've unlocked the potential of our team, right? True potential of our teams. Well, 

I 

[00:23:52] Chris Grainger: mean, but I also speak also speaks to an extreme amount of humility that as a leader you have to, to, to demonstrate every day.

Not to mention just the extreme level of ownership that you need to demonstrate every day in the situation to be able to bring that out of your team and your, your book. I love you cuz you, you have so many great examples from the military. Just curious as you've, have you, as you've been working with more companies in the civilian world, is, is that a, is that a hard transition for, for civilians to get into that type of thinking with civilian companies for, for, to debrief to win strategy?

[00:24:25] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah. I, I don't think so. And I think the beauty of the beauty of, of, uh, going in there and teaching is when you ex, when you explain to somebody how effective these approaches are, and you can, you can demonstrate based upon a lifetime of having lived it, and you can push back against what people think is the, I mean, you saw Top Gun one, right?

Comes out in 1986. Did we see any humility from anybody in that film whatsoever? Probably not. Okay. And if humility is defined as freedom from pride and, and ego, we saw 0% humility there. So people have, have been conditioned to believe that the, the least humble folks on the planet are gonna be your fighter pilots.

So to come in and say, we win because we're humble and here's, here's an, a demonstration of that, uh, that's eye opening. And, and suddenly people realize maybe they, maybe they had a misperception of how some of our elite teams actually organized to win. And because they recognize the misperception or hearing from somebody that comes from that world, this is the, the ticket to our success.

They're willing to give it a shot. And it's stunning how quickly people can embrace the core values when they, when they realize how effective they are. By the way, as an aside, I'm wearing this patch. This is the patch that the Air Force Awards to graduates of our weapons instructor course, formally known as the fighter weapons instructor course.

Of the Fight A Weapon school. It is the Air Force Top Gun Program. In order to earn the right to wear this patch, you've gotta be three things. We've got a credo at the weapons instructor course. You've gotta be, first of all, humble, you have to be humble. You have to be free from pride and ego to be able to learn from your mistakes.

And none of us have ever, in the history of the weapon school flown a perfect mission. So there's always opportunities, uh, to learn necessitating in humility. That's the first of the three right in the credo. And then here's the thing. If you, if you're watching people that you look up to, and, and for me as a young fighter I looked up to are instructor pilots, those are the folks that, that had elevated to the level where they were teachers.

Um, they were responsible for helping to shape me and, and my teammates to become our very best. When you saw them demonstrating humility, how could you not personally do the same when the people that you looked up to. Were being vulnerable. Not some of the times, not when it was convenient to do so for the messaging or whatever, but, but all of the times, how could you not right yourself be vulnerable?

That demonstrated the modeling behavior of our leaders was so powerful and I saw it and that conditioned me, and this is light years before I understood what the concepts were that I'm now teaching. It just was the, it was just the environment that was took it for granted. When I lived it, it was just there.

Then when I'm writing a book, that's where I'm uncovering things that I had never heard of before, but it actually benefited from, I never heard of the term psychological safety, by the way I mentioned it in the book. I have a big, the imperative of psychological safety. What is it? Dr. Timothy Clark defines it as an environment of rewarded vulnerability.

Guess who lived it? This guy, but had no clue. We never said, Hey, make sure that you're psychologically safe today, . Right, right, right. It was just, it was just the way that we did things. And we were unique. We're a unique tribe, subtribe within the Air Force, but this is the, this is what allows us to be successful.

And so businesses, once they recognize the value, the imperative of this, it's easy for them to, okay, 

[00:28:01] Chris Grainger: now you have my curiosity through the roof right now. Cujo. So humility's number one, you said there's three. What's the other two? Can you tell me or, 

[00:28:08] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: yeah, approachable and credible. So approachability is, is a necessary pre-condition to learning.

Like if you're a teacher, but you're not approachable, nobody, nobody's gonna wanna learn from you. Okay? Weapons, school graduates, teachers, first, they have to be approached. They gotta be humble to be able to learn from their mistakes and failures. They've gotta be approachable. Cause their teachers always, and what they teach has got to be credible, humble, approachable, credible.

It's gotta be credible cause lives are on the line. You can't just come up with a theory. I go, you know what, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna tout this because I feel like it today. What you teach has gotta be grounded in fact and truth. And, and so that's a, like a, a perfect little bundle there for what it is that you'd want from any of your leaders in any organization.

Man, I love 

[00:28:54] Chris Grainger: the, well, thank you for, for unpacking that. Now, I'm also curious, again, you've helped so many organizations out there, you have any success stories that jump out that you've personally witnessed from businesses that embrace, you know, your process here? Yeah, 

[00:29:07] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: absolutely. Um, and I've gotta be careful what I say.

So it's to protect the innocent, uh, working, uh, with an executive leadership team of incredibly talented individuals who, um, are the best at what they do. The company blowing their competition out of the water, growing like gangbusters. The only issue is as an executive leadership team, Toxic environment.

Nobody wants to come to their meetings. Uh, everybody's poised, everybody's poised to attack one another. They're waiting for the initial salvo so that they can launch a violent counter attack, right? And who thrives in that kinda environment? So it's a case where you can, you can see the, we can achieve material wealth and success.

We can grow a company even though the core is not healthy. I wouldn't say rotten, but I would say not healthy. And it took, it took, I guess, simple exposure to the reality of, Hey, this isn't, this isn't our, our best. And by the way, if, if we want to harness all of our skill sets, we've gotta really learn how to team effectively.

Cuz as good as we are, we're leaving performance on the table. Our behaviors are the key to unlocking who it is that we actually can be. Let's hold ourselves accountable for living. These core values. It was a game changing moment for, for especially a couple members of that team who really needed to understand what right looked like.

Nobody had ever showed it to them before. And that was, that was a moving experience for me, uh, to be just a small part of. Right. Um, and then just a very practical experience of working with a, with a group of people in another industry who probably weren't too excited to spend. And we spent one day, eight hours digging into the core components of how to debrief to win cultural and process.

At the end of that time, revelations from several of the people that, yeah, this idea of being vulnerable is probably the piece that's missing from my leadership skillset, something that I need to, to bring on board, and that that company takes off height of the pandemic in the midst of so many disruptions.

Turns their ship around and becomes so much more successful based upon the application of process, but also a little, a little dose of, you know, and it comes back down to being vulnerable, um, being able to say, Hey, we're screwing this thing up. And, and the other thing, and it's on me, and, you know, I'm gonna take on it both, that we're gonna, we're gonna learn from this and have a better day.

I mean, again, trying to protect the innocence so as to not, you know, give away any details, but, but I'm seeing it consistently. This is, this is rewarding work. Yeah. And it's rewarding and, and it's rewarding, like I hoped it would be because see, here's the thing, Chris, I had the benefit of living it, right?

I had the benefit of living it, so I know that it can be done. A lot of times people will ask me, is it possible Cujo in today's world to get to absolute ownership? Surely that's an impossible standard. I'm like, yeah, it's possible. You just, you have to believe in it and you have to also see what right looks like.

Right. And once you've seen. What Right. Looks like and you believe that you can achieve it, then man, it's, it's an awesome transition. Yeah. 

[00:32:28] Chris Grainger: Yeah man. Thank you for sharing what you could there. And I tell you what Kujo, the reason you're only here, cuz I got to personally see you speak at a Vistage group and it's the most fired up I've ever been at a Vistage meeting.

And, and so I can tell you one thing, I can only imagine you in front of a, all these businesses, the, the, the energy that you bring, but not just energy, just the information, insight, the wisdom, everything that you share. So, man, this has been awesome. So let, let's transition a little bit cuz I mean, our listeners are listening here.

They're, they're hearing me call you Cujo. We haven't already told your story yet. So man, give us a little bit of your story for our listeners who are probably on the edge of the seat. Like who is this Cujo guy? , 

[00:33:04] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: clearly he had some mean parents. Yeah. This Cujo guy, uh, is a former, classically trained, classically trained, uh, violin piano player.

Uh, I grew up with Suzuki method of violin instruction. So when I was two years old, I was learning. By ear. I still can't read music, but I can, I can play music pretty well. Um, who evolved into lived in Germany was, I went to German public schools. I used to dream and think in German, speak fluent German.

Came back, went to three different high schools. Dad was in the Air Force and so we moved all over the place. Um, but had this passion since four years old, since I saw Star Wars, uh, to be a fighter pilot. Definitely wanted to be a fighter pilot. Ok. Knew it was in my core to be a fighter pilot. Got an opportunity as the tail end Charlie of my class, uh, to go to the Air Force Academy.

It was denied acceptance, but got in the last possible minute, uh, made it through a really grueling four year undergraduate program and got a pilot slot at a time when the Air Force was cutting back on pilot slots. So I was very, very fortunate. Almost washed out of F 15 School. Um, uh, started out the program brilliantly Monday, uh, by Wednesday I was on an elimination ride, got through by the skin of my teeth.

And, uh, and shows up in my first operational Fighter Squadron. After two years of pilot training and introduction to Fighter Fundamental Training and F 15 School, finally in a, in a place to live My dream. And, uh, day one at the New Fighter Squadron, I was given a temporary call sign, uh, of F N G three, say frigging new Guy three.

Cause uh, there were two new guys ahead of me, . And that's how I was known. That's how I was known for the first six months of my, uh, of my flying career. And eventually, uh, one afternoon somebody taps me on the shoulder and says, Hey, make sure that you're at roll call on, on Friday. And I knew that something special was about to happen, and sure enough, it was my naming ceremony.

And the naming ceremony is something that's, it's kind of new, uh, in the Air Force Fighter circles. It comes in post Vietnam prior to Desert Storm. And so, uh, if you have any Vietnam era, Friends, relatives, they went with nicknames, but not call signs. Uh, and then across the Air Force, naming ceremonies are semi-formal, informal.

You can pick your own or they can be really, really serious. The F 15 F two community, very, very serious. And you go to the naming ceremony and um, the whole tribe is there. Everybody's there and they start telling stories about you. And the threshold of truth for the stories that are told is the stories have to be at least 10% true

And, uh, it's a festive atmosphere. And if you as the name me, can keep your mouth shut, not influence, not respond, somebody says, Hey, is that how it went? You know, fg, if you can just sit there and, and be like, to the 58th fighter squadron with a smile on your face, you're gonna turn out okay. Right? And that evening, the tribe got together, told a bunch of stories.

They, based upon the stories that were told, came up with potential call signs. They whittled it down to two. They asked me which one I preferred and they picked, uh, cause I didn't have an input. They, they picked, uh, they picked Cujo not allowed to tell any of the stories that were told of my naming. Um, but I can tell you that the call sign that they awarded me is something very, very special to me and something that I'll take for the rest of my life and, and ask people professionally to refer to me as I prefer to be known as Cujo professionally.

Right. A bit off putting in some circles, but most of the time people embrace it. Uh, it is kind of a unique moniker, but that's how we know each other in the fighter business. Um, you could tell me, Hey, uh, I ran across a guy named Brad er the other day. Uh, you ever fly with him? Like, man, I dunno if I've ever heard of one of my best friends of all time, but if you had, if you were to say, Hey, I saw on mute at the airport the other day, like, how is that son of a gun?

You know, I mean, we know each other by our call signs, not by our first names. And so, So it's a pretty cool tradition and it's one of the many things that we've done to build the bonds of cohesion, um, camaraderie and trust in a fighter squadron. And I think, I think done well. It works very effectively right 

[00:37:27] Chris Grainger: now.

So keep, keep going cuz right now you're, you're a VMA group, so get, get us to, how did you get to where you're at right now? 

[00:37:34] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah, so I have the opportunity, the privilege to attend the, uh, air Force Weapons Instructor, course Fighter Weapon School, the Air Force Top Gun Program. Um, I graduated, uh, and, and got invited back as an instructor, so I got a chance to teach there.

Uh, that was all in the F 15, uh, Eagle. This single seeded air superiority version of the F 15. Uh, did some staff assignments, got some degrees, came back and transitioned into the F 22 program. Got a chance to fly the raptor. So a fifth generation invisible to enemy radar aircraft. Brilliant machine. I mean, it's just a, a, it is a supreme airplane.

Uh, such an honor to be able to fly that. And my careers going, uh, going pretty well. Um, very satisfied with how things are going. Have some, I get married along the way to the beautiful Miss Diane. We start having children, uh, at the point where she's pregnant with child number four, I'll get diagnosed with colorectal cancer.

And in that moment, in that moment, we find out who we really are. It turns out that all of these years of living, the fighter pilot lifestyle served us incredibly well. My wife and I, the first thing that we did after the diagnosis of, Hey, we found a tumor in your lower colon. Think it's been growing for a decade.

Um, it's gonna take us five days to get the biopsy results. We don't know in that moment if it's days, weeks, or months. Left to live, and again, six months pregnant with our fourth child. Dicey time for, uh, for Diane, for sure. And for the baby. First thing we did in that moment was we went to have lunch. I was starving from the colonoscopy prep.

Diane was always starving as a, as an expectant mother. And at lunch and a little cafe in downtown, strip guard Germany, we looked at each other and affirmed that our story just got better. And it's funny, looking back on that, that was an instinctive move. Mm-hmm. , like, there was, there was no, it was not like, let's try to like create something that if we live through this, we could, you know, write down and make a big deal about it.

Make, you know, a lifetime movie or something. Um, it was instinctive to say, Hey, we just took a huge hit. We're still gonna win. Why? Because it's a mindset that we have in a fighter squadron. Nothing ever goes according to plan. Mm-hmm. and, and as I mentioned, we're very intentional about building plans, but.

But we do that. And part of the planning process is sitting through all the things that could go wrong. We anticipate things going wrong. We don't anticipate things going wrong. We anticipate things going right. And we love being able to tell a story of how, despite this problem, that problem. The other thing, we still came out victorious.

If you had to pick between two stories, the one where everything went according to plan and the one where everything didn't, you still won , that's the one that people want to hear, right? And so what was funny, and I, I could kind of see this from, from the vantage point of somebody looking down on us had this kind of third person, uh, view of we're living the fighter pilot experience still in this moment and it's serving us so well.

We needed that boost in that moment. And we set a mindset, my wife and I did that we're gonna do everything in our power and there's so much that's out of our control. But whatever it is that we can control, we're gonna harness to make sure that we make it the best story possible. Mm-hmm. . And in that moment, my wife and I, we, we got closer mm-hmm.

than we'd ever been before. And in that moment, uh, we started to laugh. I think the two of us laughed more during the worst phase of my physical life than at any point previous. We laughed about almost everything. I mean, we laughed about the pain, we laughed about some of the loss of pride from the tests that had to be done.

I mean, just, you name it, we laughed and it was in that laughter that we found hope and we found togetherness and it was awesome. Uh, it's also because of, because of the cancer that I'll have to shut down my air force. I, I shouldn't say, have to, uh, chose to reduce stress in life by leaving the Air Force and falling back to St.

Louis and, and starting a new life. Uh, and, and so that was a. That was actually, there was so much good that came from that journey and I'm very, very grateful for it and always will be. And then that leads to the pivot into entrepreneurship part of a couple of companies that don't quite pan out. Uh, and what I find is a constant thread about the two companies that don't pan out.

Uh, they're not really practicing the teamwork principles that we had in the fighter squadron. And the accountability piece is lacking. And so there's always been a suspicion in my mind that what it was that we did in a fighter squadron could be translated into business mm-hmm. . And we use this as the opportunity to take action on it, to test it out, test the theory that a, a business team can become a high performance team.

Right. That we can classify our performance team principles into the domain where we desperately need it because small businesses are the backbone of our economy. Mm-hmm. . And that led to the creation of Vmax Group. And here we're today. 

[00:42:35] Chris Grainger: Man, what a powerful story. Cujo. I mean, thank you so much for, for sharing it, for being so vulnerable.

I, I, I've heard your story. I was hoping you, you would share the details. You did. So, man, just what an incredible, incredible journey that you've been on. I cannot wait to see where, where it takes you next and, uh, just, just a testament to you and your leadership and, uh, you know, that's, that's a I'm at a loss for words, really, my friends.

So just, just thank you again, and as someone that is transitioning, you know, we, we, we do serve a lot of military here on ecos y and would love to, to get advice from people like yourself who have, who've made that transition from the military to the civilian workforce. Any advice out there, uh, that you would, that you would offer up with someone who is making that transition on, on what maybe w uh, worked for you or helped you?

[00:43:20] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Absolutely. But before I get to that, if I could thank you. Thank you very much for the kind words. I'm gonna, in turn, uh, send my thanks back to the people who trained me. Okay. And I, it's a daily prayer of Thanksgiving for me that the folks that were appointed as leaders over me throughout the course of my professional development in the, in the military, cared so much about making me my best.

Mm-hmm. . And they poured so much into me in order to make me my best, uh, that I'm, I'm eternally blessed and I look at my teammates who did the exact same thing. I mean, we're talking about nameless kids who will never get any recognition anywhere, who as a instructor pilot in the F 15 were there at two o'clock in the morning, teaching Cujo, young Cujo how to have the right mindset to bounce back from a particularly horrible day.

At a time when you're not, you're not doing it cuz you're getting paid extra. You're not doing it because you're gonna be celebrated for it. It's just the right thing to do. I benefited from that. I benefited from that professionally, but then also personally, the mindset that my wife and I got. It wasn't ours, right?

It wasn't something that I was born with. It was something that I was trained to as a fighter pilot. It just happened to serve us so well. So I think in turn, those who, who gave me that gift, and then to those who are making the, the transition out here, here's something that I'm, I'm very, very passionate about and it's this, don't pigeonhole yourself.

Don't assume that you can only do X, Y, or Z because you've never done A, B, or C before. You have, you've done everything that's needed of you in a civilian business. We just, we just have to translate the names and the nomenclature, the verbiage, and maybe soften some of your approaches. Just a touch. But what you do have, without a doubt, and I don't care if you're somebody that served in the Marine Corps for only four years and are now walking out of that thing into, into life, you know how to team, you know how to lead, you know, discipline, you know, the centrality of a mission.

You've got so much that has been instilled in you since day one of bootcamp. And if you can take and harness just a little bit of that to the extreme benefit of your teammates in whatever else it is that you do in life, oh, you're gonna be a treasurer, so don't pigeonhole yourself. Don't just assume, well, I was trained on X, Y, or Z, or, I'm just a don't, don't sell yourself short.

You are a leader. You are a team leader. You're an outstanding teammate that's got so much goodness to you. Sky's the limit. You pick what it is that you wanna go dominate and then do so. 

[00:45:50] Chris Grainger: Amen, brother. I mean, and, and I'll speak to that. I mean, had so many people that work with me, I've been on teams at Eco and by far the, the military backgrounds, those men and women.

Man, they, they have just been the, the most delight to work with. They're the most fun to work with too, by the way. Uh, always have fun, particularly, I've worked with a lot of Navy, so I went to Old Dominion right there at the, at the Navy base. I, I've worked with a lot of Navy, uh, guys and girls over the years, so, uh, you know, good guys to have in your background, in your back pocket for sure.

And then obviously the Air Force have, my, my, uh, my in-laws both serve in the Air Force. So, uh, much, much love and respect for, for all branches and military. So thank you Kujo for that. And, uh, I'm curious, let's have, let's have one more fun question here. So you're a fighter pilot. Ex fighter pilot. I, I, what's, what's something about a fighter pilot that nobody would think of?

That nobody would know Any, any, any inside information when you, cause when you think about a fighter pilot nowadays, everybody thinks it's of Maverick and Top Gun, right? So is there something else that, that, that you wouldn't think of about a fighter pilot that you'd like to. 

[00:46:52] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah, it was, it was actually any number of, be careful with what I say.

Here's, here's what I'm saying. Cause you did mention Maverick. I have to, I have to dispel this, you know, so, so people ask me constantly, what do you think about the new Top Gun movie? Right? Uh, I've seen the Four Times and I love the new Top Gun movie. I don't, I don't, I don't love all aspects of it. Is it, is it technically correct all over the place?

Heck no. But I don't care. That's irrelevant. The stuff that's inaccurate is irrelevant. I love the new Top Gun movie. Part of the thing that I love about it is that Maverick, you see his, his evolution. Yeah. Into, into who he wasn't before Into, into something that parallels what I feel like I, I experienced.

Um, he's pensive. He's, he's somewhat vulnerable. He takes ownership. He's, he, he actually does become a teacher. He gives his all for the good of the team. I mean, there's a lot of goodness there, but, but the part that's, that's so wrong is when you see the. The young top gun graduates and they're all assembling together, playing pool.

Yeah. There are a bunch of cocky folks who are trying to demonstrate who's the best amongst us, and they're, they're knocking each other constantly. And what I would say is, is that they got that part wrong. Mm. Yeah. There is a, you want be, you want to be the top gun of your squadron, there's no doubt about it, but the way that you get there is about being the best teacher in your squadron.

You can't be a good teacher if you're just an arrogant whatever. I think what people don't, don't realize is how, how good a teammates we are. And, and I would, I would capstone that with this. Um, I was part of many squadrons in my Air Force career, but, uh, recently the 27th Fighter in America's oldest fighter squadron based at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia.

The year group that I was there for, you know, plus or minus a year or two, had a reunion. We went to Las Vegas. We did that because there was entertainment options and whatnot, found that most of us didn't take advantage of any of them. We, we got together. Why? Cause we missed each other. It was an inconvenient weekend.

Everybody was busy as all heck. But we just missed each other. We missed being together. And it, for me, it was about 19 years since the last time I've been with that group of people. That was far too long. We teamed so well. It was like we were just together yesterday. The stories immediately took off.

Again. It was such a brilliant thing. And my wife misses those people, man. I was gone constantly, always at the squadron, always teaching, always. She misses being with them. And it's because we become a family. We are so tight that we are a family. Uh, and families need to get together again. So maybe, maybe that's my, my insight for it.

Yeah. The movie gets wrong. We're, we're dear, dear, dear friends. Because of the experiences that we share and the amount of time we spend together, right. 

[00:49:40] Chris Grainger: I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that. And uh, last question about Vmax and then we'll, we'll have a little fun here at the end, but at the work that you're doing now at Cujo, when do you get the most fulfillment?

You know, where, where do you find that joy at? 

[00:49:53] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: I get the joy when somebody reports back Cujo. You have no idea how big of an impact you've made on my team. And they might offer some details about the good that's happened, but when they come back and say, you're doing epic work, don't ever stop doing this, that gets me fired up.

I hate missing my family. I hate being on the road as much as I am. I had to test airports and airlines and hotels and rental cars and all the rest of this stuff, and I'll do all of that to continue to make our purpose come to life. To do good for teams and to help them to be their very best. It's worth.

That is 

[00:50:31] Chris Grainger: amazing. Well, let's have a little fun here at the end of, of our, of our conversation. Cujo. Let's, let's talk about you outside of, uh, air Force outside of Vmax. Just what do you enjoy doing for fun? You got any hobbies you'd like to share? 

[00:50:43] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah. Uh, my perfect day would involve it always being Friday, Friday evening, having the band together.

Literally in the basement I'll be on bass guitar. We've got a good drummer, we've got a good lead vocal, we've got a good lead guitar as we're playing seventies and eighties rock music, uh, with a little, with a little concentration on, uh, on u2. Oh, that would be perfect. And then to be able to take and put on a performance in the backyard for a bunch of friends.

That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I love playing music day and I love, I love playing music with other people. I love being in a band. Even if, even if the music isn't perfect, uh, bringing joy to people, watching them dance and sing along, that's, that's powerful stuff. Alright. 

[00:51:31] Chris Grainger: Alright. Now, just so you know, our executive producer here on the show, Adam, he's a, he's a big time drummer and guitar player as well.

So if you need somebody, great. You know, I think you could, we can, we can fly him right up there wherever you need, man. He could be a standin for you. I'll come in and, uh, you know, I'll free, I'll free your cups up in between songs. How about that? You know, but, uh, 

[00:51:48] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: good percussion session set. Nice. I love it's, that's 

[00:51:54] Chris Grainger: it, that's it.

Well, we also, you mentioned, we, we love hearing about family on ecos, why you mentioned, was it four children that you have? 

[00:52:01] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: So now we've got five. Nicholas, uh, comes to us post Air Force. He was born here in St. Louis. 

[00:52:06] Chris Grainger: Okay. Okay. Five children. Wow, that's amazing. And what, and what's, what's the age 

[00:52:11] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: range here?

Yeah, so, um, so our oldest sister turned 17. We've got 14, 11, 8, and five. So we've, we've had youngsters in the family for quite a quite a while, and as I'm reminded by the older kids, um, you know, I'll be in a wheelchair when Nicholas is out there playing baseball somewhere on the

Well, I'll say, I'll say this as we're going through all the, uh, the craziness of the sort of cat last couple of years. Uh, having this brood has been magnificent. And, uh, my wife and I constant on what joy been to have just group of people that we can back to and be together with as the world loses its mind.

Yeah, you know, we're still here together. And I'll also emphasize this, maybe someday one of, one of my children stumbles across this podcast. I want them to know, How much they touched me. And in the moment we only had three. When I was going through the recovery from two horrific GI surgeries, they showed me unconditional love.

Even as young children, they went out of their way to not make too much noise, to not be angry at one another. If they were close to dad when they saw the dad was wincing or in pain, they tried to help out. I'll never forget that. I mean, what a, what a great thing. And, um, yeah, so, so, so blessed to have this particular family and to be on this life journey with them.

They're the best team that I've ever been on by far. Amen. 

[00:53:39] Chris Grainger: Hey, man, it sounds, it sounds like an amazing team, man. And, and I'm with you there. So I have four, uh, my youngest is 11 days old at the time of this recording, so man, I have a really new, new one here at the house. So first son, by the way, so. I'm trying not to congrat.

Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna break into some new dirt here, so, we'll, we'll see. But I'm with you, man. I was, I was actually today, today we, we went for, uh, the family pictures this morning before we recorded this afternoon. And, uh, just looked in the rear view mirror of the car for the first, that was the first time we were all in the car together.

All, all, all six of us, us. And it was, my wife was like, car's pretty full, isn't it? And I'm like, yeah, it's pretty cool. . You know, so it's, uh, 

[00:54:19] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: it's pretty awful. Yes, it's, congratulations. That's brilliant, brilliant news. 

[00:54:26] Chris Grainger: Yes, sir. Well, thank you, sir. Well, let's, let's at the very end of Ecos, while we like to have a quick lightning round, this is a lot of fun for our listeners, just to give a little bit of insight to, to some fun, some fun things for you.

I'll, I'll about you rather. So if you're willing to play, we'll play that and then we'll, we'll wrap up with our last question. Are you good? Let's do it. Alright. So what is your favorite food Cujo? 

[00:54:47] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Uh, I'll say a German braw onion. On a specifically Saturday morning where it's chilly outside. 

[00:54:56] Chris Grainger: Okay. All right.

Now, when, when you're, when you're, when you're jamming on the, the, uh, bass guitar there, do you have an adult beverage by your side? 

[00:55:04] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Uh, I do. I'll go with a German beer. Okay. Any brands, uh, you know, hope Boy, you can get here in the States. And so that's something that's pretty dependable. Okay. Okay. A good Munich, Munich based beer.

I enjoy it. 

[00:55:19] Chris Grainger: There you go. What's your, what's your favorite app on 

[00:55:22] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: your phone?

Unfortunately, it's probably the email app. All things we've got going on group that actually counts. Probably my second favorite is my whoop out track of, uh, of health and fitness. There you go, . 

[00:55:43] Chris Grainger: Okay. There you go. There you go. So, so, so speaking of health and fitness, do you have any guilty pleasures?

[00:55:54] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Oh man. Yeah, my nutritionist is probably gonna come across this thing. You know, I, I probably don't eat as healthy as I ought. Love myself some good ice cream. I specifically like a coffee flavored ice cream with the, with mocha chips in it. And I can eat that thing, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, man. 

[00:56:13] Chris Grainger: I hear you buddy.

I hear you. Now you mention how much you . That's right. That's right. You mentioned earlier that you're a big fan of you, you do like the Top Gun movie, but what is your favorite movie of all time? Is it Top Gun or is it something else? 

[00:56:28] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: It's a wonderful light, uh, Frank Capra. Um, yeah, I think that movie is just such an epic, epically brilliant film ends on such a positive note.

Love it, love it, love it, love it. Followed closely by the natural director's. Cut. Ah, okay. 

[00:56:44] Chris Grainger: Okay. Now it's a wonderful life for me. Every year that's, uh, Christmas Eve, that's what I have on. I watch, I wonder of if stations always plays that, but I, no matter what, I find it and we're going, we're gonna watch that every year.

So it just love the story. No doubt about it. Exactly. So what's, uh, let's, let's do a couple more. You mentioned you're a big music guy, so what is your favorite band of all time 

[00:57:07] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: you two? Uh, I came up, uh, you know, following them in the eighties, then I got a chance, um, to start, to start going to their concerts.

Uh, and I've been going to their concerts across the world. Uh, I was there at Camp New when they kicked off the U2 360 tour. 92,000 people, uh, there in Spain. My brother flies in from San Diego to join me. It was just so neat. You know, through the years we've been through as many concerts as possible. Bush Stadium was a brilliant one also on the 360 tour.

So being in St. Louis at the home of the 11 time World Championship, Uh, watching them play music was epic. Nice. And they're so good. Alive. Nice, nice. 

[00:57:47] Chris Grainger: Awesome. Well, last question in our lightning round. Cujo. Dogs or cats? Dogs. Okay. There was only one right answer. And you got it, man. So that's 

[00:57:57] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: pass. I'm actually, I'm actually shocked that there was a cat category.

All right. . 

[00:58:02] Chris Grainger: That's right, that's right. Well, KJA, this has been an absolute, uh, just a blessing to have you here. We always, we call it ecos. Why we wrap up with the why, sir. So, you know, let's, let's just go back a little bit. So why is knowing how to, uh, and implementing the process of debrief so critical to business success in the future?

[00:58:20] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah. Accountability is the core of, of teaming done correctly. If you don't practice accountability, well you're not a team. Mm-hmm. . And so if, if, if you organize as a team to accomplish your work, which I think most businesses do, then you've gotta get accountability. Right, right, right. 

[00:58:38] Chris Grainger: Well, Kujo, this is, again, thank you so much.

Where, where should people go to connect with you to learn more about Vmax? Do give a shout out, A shout out here. We'll make sure we put that in a show notes for our listeners, but where do you want 'em to go? Go to? 

[00:58:51] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Yeah, I think if you wanna learn more about me, it's robert tesh.com. Uh, last name is T E S C H N E R.

Um, but that's also gonna lead you to the company, VMAX Group. And if you just wanna go there, vmax group llc.com and there it outlines what we do and how 

[00:59:10] Chris Grainger: Absolutely. We'll make sure we sync all that up. And you're pretty active on LinkedIn too, so we'll put your LinkedIn profile out there for you, for listeners to check out.

But Kujo, again, thank you so much. It's been just, I, I've learned a ton. I, I knew this was gonna be a fun one, so appreciate your time here on Ecos. 

[00:59:25] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: Thank you, Chris, for the privilege and the opportunity to be able to speak to your listeners. Brilliant job on the work that you're doing in the world. 

[00:59:32] Chris Grainger: Thank you, sir.

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[00:59:59] Robert "Cujo" Teschner: That's E E C O A 

[01:00:02] Chris Grainger: K S W H y.com.